How Consciousness Is the Basis of Reality

Welcome to Seek Reality. I’m Roberta Grimes and I’m delighted that you’re with us today. My dear friends, for most of the decades that I was doing afterlife research, I thought I was alone in my, you know, very eccentric hobby, but very enjoyable hobby. And that was okay. By the turn of this century, I had managed to build an amazingly detailed description of what it really is like to die, what the afterlife is like, and I was having fun. I just enjoyed it. It was my own thing. I, of course, didn’t study NDEs much. I knew that they were kind of a dead-end thing to look at, but I was using genuine reports from people who were in the afterlife, received primarily in the first part of the 20th century, so 100 years earlier.

And then in the spring of 2008, I think it was, Amazon was still sending around, you know, books you might be interested in. Here’s a new one. And the book that they sent me to look at was called Your Eternal Self. Then the author was Dr. R. Craig Hogan. I’d never heard of either one, but I bought that book. I devoured it. I thought, wow, I finally had found somebody else who had been on my same research journey and he had found what I had found and a whole lot more. I was so excited to have found Craig Hogan that I contacted him. I invited him to Austin to speak and by the end of that weekend, oh I had my new best friend forever. He had convinced me even just over that weekend to write The Fun of Dying and the rest as we say is history.

Craig was our first guest a few years later on this podcast, and today is his 47th visit. He’s with us about once every three months ever since then on Seeker Reality. He has been our guest here faithfully, always with a slightly different topic, and we always, I think everything we talk about, we end up agreeing on. And he always has some new twist to it. He’s been doing this research ever since, as have I. We’re always trying to come up with new things. And I’ll say to him, hey, have you looked at this? And he’ll say, oh yeah, here’s something new about that. And I just, I love having a friend. When you’re researching something that most people have never, and frankly, 25 years ago, most people had never looked at this 20 years ago, 15 years ago, even. Now it’s, it’s something that we can teach because a lot of people are very interested in life after death, and in all of the side topics around it. But this was something back then most of us very, very eccentric things you would be researching.

And, and it’s, this has been a wonderful journey to share with Craig. He’s my very, very dear, special friend, and I’m thrilled to have him back. Many people will say to me, even, you know, when are you going to have Craig back? You know, he, Carol, and Mikey, one or two others, are people, people frequently mention to me, when are you going to have them back again? So I’m so thrilled to have him here today. And when I emailed him, I think it was just yesterday, and said, okay, what are we going to talk about? So we decided to talk about consciousness because this is something which amazes us is still something that science, believe it or not, good old basic science is supposed to be on the cutting edge. It’s still clueless about it.

I think you probably find it hard to believe that maximally educated people who do physics for a living have not yet caught up to someone like me who never got beyond high school algebra to, I swear, they still have not caught up to me, and but so it is.

Quantum Physicists Asserted Consciousness Is Fundamental

I’m going to give you just a couple of stellar quotations from Dr. Max Planck himself. He won the 1918 Nobel Prize as the father of quantum physics. This is the big shot of big shots in science. In 1931, Max Planck said, I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness.” He’s absolutely right. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing postulates consciousness. Max Planck said in 1944, now what was that? That was what, 90 years ago? 80 years ago? He said, as a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear-headed science, to the study of matter.

I can tell you as a result of my research about atoms this much. There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter.

Even Albert Einstein said, reality is only an illusion, although a very persistent one. He had a sense of humor. I could give you more quotations from Einstein, from Nikola Tesla, and from others, but I’d rather now bring on our wonderful guest today, Craig. Welcome. I’m so happy to have you back with us again.

[Craig] Yeah, I’m excited about being here too. Yes, we’ve had a wonderful road together all the way from that time when I came out to speak at that church and we first met each other. It’s been a wonderful journey together and so I’m looking forward to today.

[Roberta] Yeah, this really has been fun. But it wouldn’t have been a tenth as much fun if we hadn’t had each other to sort of lean on and, you know, inside jokes.

Physical Science Still Has No Explanation for How the Brain Could Create Consciousness

It’s been it’s this is the biggest inside joke I think at all of all really who would have thought that a quarter of the time into the 21st century science would still be clueless they’re still looking for a source of consciousness inside the human brain and it would be impossible if your your brain and my brain and everybody else’s brains were like you know like giving off into into the ether, the basis of reality, which we have proven repeatedly, is consciousness.

How’s that possible?

[Craig] Yeah, it’s impossible, and they don’t have a clue, and so they’re still looking in the brain, and when you start to look in the brain and you can only see what’s in the brain, you’re only, you’re insisting that everything must be in the brain, then they just continue to look, and when they don’t find it, they find some other theory that might help them to find it there in the brain, and it’s not there.

Why Do We Know the Mind Is Not in the Brain?

[Craig] We know that from the fact that the brain can’t handle all the memories. We couldn’t have the memories, a whole lifetime of memories in the brain. There was research that was done at the Max Planck Institute and they found that there was no electrical impulse going from the optic, from the eyes into the optic nerve into the optical cortex in the back of the brain. They couldn’t find anything, which shows that there was nothing going on there. And what that means is that the experiences of sight are coming from somewhere else. They’re not coming from the outside. So, but they’ve ignored that. They’ve ignored the fact that the brain processes, they’ve found information at the rate of 60 to 80 bits per second. And that’s enough to fill your mind in one hour of television. So one hour of television would fill your mind.

Hyperthymesia Proves People Remember More Than the Brain Could Store

We have many instances in which people can remember every instance that happened in every day of their life. It’s called hyperthymesia, and they can remember things that happened when they were in grade school, and they can tell you about that day and what was going on in that day, and that’s just impossible. It couldn’t happen if the memories were being stored in the brain, but they just ignore the fact.

[Roberta] It is so astonishing. It’s so sad. It’s really sad, actually. And because they have invested so much science in the last hundred years in this dogma, which is what it is, it’s basically a fundamental dogma of science that that’s where consciousness must come from. They’ve invested so much in it, that they can’t accept any other possibility. And so that’s where they have to go.

Science Can’t Find the Mind in the Brain

[Roberta] I recently took a course from IONS, which the International Organization of Noetic Sciences, I believe is what it’s called, which is a very reputable, theoretically, consciousness this researching organization. And what they were doing was awarding papers to people who theoretically are in the same field that you’re on and I are in. And these, these people had just done a tremendous amount of research on other papers, which were all researching, again, where where consciousness is coming from inside the brain. And, and I, I first I was interested, I was, they’re going to be showing something new. But instead, it was like, more and more and more people trying to figure out nonsense. I mean, it was it was it was like, it felt like watching people on a desert island, who had found a radio that was still somehow working, still trying to figure out where Frank Sinatra was. They had taken the thing apart and they couldn’t figure out where that voice was coming from. And yet they had a scientific degree, so they should be able to figure that out, shouldn’t they? And I just can’t believe it. Adult scientists behaving this way? How is that possible? I don’t get it.

Science Can’t Find the Mind Because They Refuse to Look at All the Data

[Craig] Yeah, it’s amazing, the fact that they’re not looking at all the data. We have so much data now to show that the mind is not in the brain. And then we have data to show that the mind continues after the body dies. And it’s all out there, it’s all available, and anyone can look at it. It’s overwhelming. And yet they ignore it. And the reason they ignore it is because it doesn’t fit with their paradigm. And they’ve invested their careers, and they’re writing books about the idea that the mind is in the brain. And so they’ve got to stay with that paradigm and they refused to look at the data.

Just like Galileo, when Galileo wanted to show that the Earth is not the center of the universe and that the Earth actually is one of the planets that revolve around the sun, and he just asked the learned people at the time, the clergy and the scientists, to just look through the microscope, or through the telescope. He said, just look, just look at it. You can see that Jupiter has moons, and the moon, our moon, has craters on it, and Venus goes through phases, and they wouldn’t look through the telescope, and the same thing’s happening now. They just won’t look at the data that we have to show that the mind is not in the brain, so that when we drop off the body, the mind just keeps on going, healthy and happy and as alive as ever, and we just can’t get them to look at the data.

[Roberta] What about the minds of plants? Where can we find the brain of a plant? I mean, I have plants in my office that I love dearly. They’re over there. You can sort of see them in the background. And I have not thought of taking them apart because I love them dearly, but I do believe they do not have a brain. Isn’t that probably something that I could prove?

[Craig] Yeah, they don’t have a brain, but they still respond.

[Roberta] Right, so that would be my point. If you take a galvanometer, which is a lie detector, and you attach it, this has been proven you attach it to a leaf of a plant in another room. The plant’s keeper, the one who waters the plant and cares for the plant, is in another room. There’s a galvanometer attached to the leaf in this room, and the person who cares for a plant has the conscious intention of doing that plant harm. The plant will immediately register alarm.

[Craig] The plant screams.

[Roberta] It does. This is a well-known fact. Yeah, it’s been supported. Explain that, Mr. Scientist.

[Craig] Yeah, and so because their assumption is that there must be synopses, there have to be neurons, there have to be brain stuff in order for things to have any consciousness, and it isn’t so, and we’re discovering that to be true now. We know that trees, for instance, have a network of roots underneath the ground, and that the tree, a tree, will favor giving nitrogen to its babies, to its little trees. So it will, through its network underneath the ground, will give nitrogen to its trees, and it realizes them. It knows which ones are its progeny, and will then nurture them. So we have the data to show this is true. We have the data to show that the plants respond. And science simply can’t explain that because they’re looking for, any consciousness has to be in what they think is neurons. So it has to be in the brain or some brain-like thing.

The Universe Is Consciousness

[Craig] And what we know to be true is that the universe is consciousness. Gaia is conscious. So the Earth, everything about us, so everything about our evolution has been as a result of consciousness. And so then they’re not willing to allow that to be true. And as a result of that, then they just don’t make the conclusions, they don’t come to the conclusions that we know are true.

[Roberta] It really is astonishing. A whole forest of plants is an actual community, which as you say, in which as you say, the trees will favor their own young, that also favor their own ancestors, even if those ancestors are only the living trunk of a tree and the tree has been harvested that was their ancestor. They will fight off, that group of trees will fight off any, whether it’s a fungus or a kind of insect that will do them harm, but if there is a beneficent kind of moss or something that actually is beneficial to the tree, they will nurture that. And all of this has been thoroughly researched and documented and written up.

 There are books that are available, and if anyone sends me an email, I’ll send you the name, the titles of the books. One is called The Secret Life of Plants. If you haven’t read The Secret Life of Plants, you don’t know anything about anything. That’s free advice to everybody who is watching us. Read that book. That book was a revelation for me and it came out in the early 70s.

[Craig] And what they don’t realize is the fact that the mind is at the basis of reality. So consciousness is at the basis of reality. And as a result of that, then there are things that happen in this reality that show that it is consciousness that’s acting. Evolution is a process of consciousness coming into its own. So we know that to be true now. We know that there are punctuated periods of evolution in which suddenly something happens, suddenly there’s a change that couldn’t possibly happen by chance. And that’s a result of the fact that at the basis of reality is consciousness.

So anything that we observe in this reality then is part of consciousness. and all we had to do was get behind this reality. And as you say, Max Planck saw that. Max Planck and the progenitors, the original pioneers of quantum mechanics and the early science that was happening in the early 20th century, they all realized that there was something greater than a material realm. Arthur Eddington, Sir Arthur Eddington, who helped to prove that Einstein’s theories were right, and Sir James Jean, who was the founder or the British cosmology, all said that there is something much greater than this physical realm that is behind reality. But the scientists today have lost that. They’ve simply ignored that. They don’t come back to that because it doesn’t fit with their paradigm. It’s so much easier to add up numbers than it is to think about the reality of this world and the fact that consciousness is at its basis. and so then they’re ignoring all of the reality.

Evolution Is Punctuated by Consciousness Changing Species

[Roberta] Yeah, but that’s also how evolution happens. It happens as a process of punctuated equilibrium, or easy for me to say. It doesn’t happen the way Darwin said it did. It happens, a new kind of plant or a new kind of animal comes into being all at once. And it just, that’s because consciousness invents a giraffe. It doesn’t happen little by little. Consciousness invents a new kind of plant, a new kind of animal, all of us. Yeah, that’s it. And I can’t explain the Cambrian explosion, which happened 550 million years ago. The fact that all of a sudden we had all of this proliferation of species, and there was There’s no explanation for it, but the important thing is the fact that this is a conscious, it’s a purposeful evolution. In other words, then we are evolving towards something. And we can see it happening even within the past few centuries, that we are changing, we are evolving, we are becoming. And it’s because of the fact that consciousness is at the basis of reality, and consciousness is from the mind of God, and that is pure love. And so then everything is evolving towards that pure love.

Scientists Have Said Consciousness Is Fundamental, but Mainstream Science Can’t Accept That

[Roberta] Yeah, you really, the sciences are not going to like you at all, my dear. You can’t talk about love, but that’s, in fact, love is the highest kind of vibration. Consciousness, we should explain, is a form of energy, and like all energy, it vibrates, and in its highest vibration, it is pure love. Its lowest vibration, it is all those ishy emotions like fear, hatred, anger, rage, all that all that negativity is at the lowest vibration. And that’s just the way it is. We don’t make this up, folks, we study. And the more you study it, the more you see that it’s true. Yeah, that’s it. But just saying that reality is at its heart, emotional, something which scientists would absolutely find impossible to believe is just, that’s just it. That’s just facts.

[Craig] That’s Yeah, and you had quoted Max Planck, and I’ve just looked up quotations that I have. Arthur Eddington, who I said had been working with Einstein and had proved that Einstein’s theories about gravitational lensing were true. Eddington wrote this:

The mind stuff of the world is, of course, something more general than our individual conscious minds. It is necessary to keep reminding ourselves that all knowledge of our environment, from which the world of physics is constructed, has entered in the form of messages transmitted along the nerves of the seat of consciousness. It is difficult for the matter-of-fact physicist to accept the view that the substratum of everything is of a mental character, but no one can deny that mind is the first and most direct thing in our experience and all else’s remote inference

And his thesis was that reality is basically mental. And Sir James Jeans, who’s the founder of British cosmology, wrote in an interview in The Observer, when he was asked this question, “Do you believe that life on this planet is the result of some sort of accident or do you believe that it’s part of a grand scheme?” And he replied, “I incline towards the idealistic theory that consciousness is fundamental and that the material universe is derivative from consciousness.” And so then we know that to be true.

Schrodinger was actually a metaphysician as well as being a scientist. He was interested in Eastern religions, and what he said was that he rejected the idea that mind and matter were dual and favored a union, a monism, where all is mind, everything is mind. So we know that these original thinkers of quantum mechanics realized this truth, and then it has been lost to scientists today. They simply ignore what they were discovering was true.

[Roberta] Yeah, because they were so afraid of finding God. This was a panic situation for them right around the turn of the 20th century. I guess I don’t even know why, but it was like they saw it as a battle with religion that they were engaged in. And so they established, and you can find this in print probably 1910 and thereabouts in several places, they established what they called the fundamental dogma of mainstream science is materialism. If we’re not studying matter, we are not doing science. And so, therefore, they literally would not accept papers, they would not allow people to teach, you could not be a scientist if you were not studying matter. Now, we know, and they knew at the time, that matter and energy are but two aspects of the same thing.

[Roberta] In fact, Einstein said that, I don’t have the quote in front of me, but he said that matter is, we have said about matter, we all wrong. Matter is but energy whose vibration has been so slow that it is perceptible to the senses. There is no matter. Einstein said that. That’s an almost exact quotation from him.

We Have the Evidence the Mind Is Not in the Brain

[Craig] Yeah, and so behind all of it is then consciousness, so that when we look into the energy, then what we see is consciousness. We have lots of evidence of this. We have evidence of it when people go into near-death experiences, for instance, and their body is shut down, their brain is shut down, and yet they have very strong sensory impressions. They see things. They actually travel out of body and go to other places, and they describe what’s there. And we have these. These are on record. We have the record of them. And they’re recorded by physicians, so we have, they are reliable sources. And yet science ignores that. It refuses to think about that.

We have the evidence from people coming back from the life after this life and communicating to us. And they speak to us about things that are going on in our lives right now. They are present, they are current, they are alive. And, but science will ignore that, say that that’s not true. In my book, you know, Evidence Beyond a Reasonable Doubt, You Will Never Die, is based upon the essay that I had submitted to the contest that had been going on and that famous contest that I think everybody probably knows about it now, about the effort to find out what is the basis of the mind and does mind continue to live after death. And all of the things that are in that book are evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. There’s no doubt about the fact that we continue to live after the body dies. In other words, we don’t need the body. And what that shows is that the basis of existence is consciousness and consciousness cannot be destroyed. So consciousness continues after the body dies.

[Roberta] Absolutely. And beyond this reality, this material reality, there is no time. And one consequence of that fact, which has been proven so many different ways, is that if you are aware and watching us and listening to us now, that means you are always aware. You always have been. You always will be. You exist eternally. If you are watching and listening to us right now, you exist eternally. I don’t know how many people really understand that fact, but it’s true.

[Craig] Yeah, I think that people generally have a glimmering of an understanding. They believe that mom is not really gone when the body dies and mom is not here anymore. And they believe that somehow she’s still here. They don’t fully understand that. But we have an innate sense of the fact that we continue to live after the body dies.

Today, We Have a  Science of the Afterlife

[Craig] But now we have the science behind that. We have the science of the afterlife. We have the science of consciousness. And now we can say exactly what does happen when the body dies. We can say where we are. We have roadmaps to the afterlife. So we know that these are true now. And we have people coming back from the life after this life and describing what is happening in their lives there and what their life is like there and what they do there. And all of this information is available now, but the scientists who are materialists simply won’t look at the data.

[Roberta] And why won’t they is what people are thinking. And the reason is they need to feed the kids, put them through college, save for retirement. They can’t be practicing scientists in the world. They can’t have a career if they don’t limit what they do to what science will allow. Science is not a democracy. Science is very rigidly a dictatorship. Sad to say.

Changes in Materialistic Science Will Come with Younger Researchers

[Craig] Yeah, and the young scientists are very afraid of losing their opportunities, and so then they can’t branch out. But it’s gonna come from the young scientists. You know, you mentioned Max Planck, and he also said that the changes that are going to be coming, the monumental changes, the dramatic changes in our understanding of reality are not going to come from the scientists who are alive now, it’s gonna come after they die, and the younger scientists come up.

[Roberta] He said science advances by deaths.

[Craig] Yeah, and the young scientists are very afraid of losing their opportunities, and so then they can’t branch out.

[Roberta] Yeah, and the younger scientists come up and they’re more open-minded, and they can see what we’re doing here. He did say that like almost 100 years ago. We’ve had a few deaths since then and still no advances. It’s gonna take things dramatic. Because they won’t get funded. That’s right. Because funding really drives what science is doing. And so then the funders are the people who make decisions about what humankind knows to be true, or realizes, or finds out, discovers to be true. Because they’re the ones who fund whatever it is that they believe to be true. And so then the scientists just fall in line. And as a matter of fact, they are then skewed, all of their science is skewed in the direction of materialism.

[Roberta] We’re gonna have to find some billionaire with an extra billion dollars who wants to, you know, we’ll have to see if we can find someone who has a free spirit, who wants to fund research into the truth.

We Have the Data Today, So We Just Need Funding

[Craig] Yeah, there’s so much. Yeah, there’s so much out there. There’s so much that we can prove to be true now. And we know that to be true. We know that, for instance, about memories. The memories are not in the brain. We know that they’re not in the brain, so then what we can do now is we can prove that to be true. We can prove that memories are not in the brain, that they’re coming from elsewhere. All we have to do is set up the experimental situations in which we discover where that memory is coming from, but the scientists, those who are getting the money, who are getting the funding now, simply won’t set up those experimental tests to see whether the mind is in the brain or not, and as a result of that, then they don’t go there. We can get that data to prove that it’s true.

[Roberta] We’ll have to, maybe, maybe after Elon Musk finishes cleaning out the government, maybe he’ll fund a little experiment for us, we’ll see.

[Craig] Yeah, call him and see what he says.

[Roberta] He’s in front of the road here, we’ll have to see.

[Craig] Yeah, yeah, it’d be wonderful. All we need to do is to have some backing to be doing this research, and the research is going to show the truth. The problem is that the research being funded now is not oriented into understanding consciousness. And there have been real attempts, and there are still attempts to understand what happens. And some people, like David Chalmers, who is a specialist in consciousness and now is at New York University, all of these people are insisting that there must be something that involves the brain in consciousness, and so then they come up with ideas about dualism, about the mind being outside of the brain in part, but mostly it’s in the brain and it’s functioning in the brain, and these are efforts to try to keep fundamentally the materialist mindset, and it’s failing. It is simply failing, but yet they won’t admit that. They won’t go on beyond that and say, okay, then let’s test these other hypotheses.

[Roberta] They can’t because they need to be able to keep their jobs.

[Craig] They’ll have to keep their funding, have to keep their jobs, yeah. And it’s sad, but that is the reality now.

When the Change in Science Comes, It Will Be a Sea Change

[Craig] When it happens, it’s going to be happening in a sea change, so that there will be a time when

[Roberta] Some January, they’ll be still completely ignorant. By December, it’ll be like, oh, we thought everybody knew this.

[Craig] That’s what it is, that’s what will happen. Because it’s going to be like a backdraft, which is where, in a building that’s on fire, the rooms heat up and keep heating up, and then as soon as you open a door to a room, then the backdraft comes up, because all of the fire then gets the oxygen that it needs and suddenly explodes, and that’s what’s going to happen. So when people start to realize the fact that the mind is not in the brain, that the consciousness is at the basis of reality, then there’s gonna be a backdraft. All of a sudden, there’s gonna be an explosion of people who are gonna get involved in it. And there are going to be the old dogs who still refuse to admit it, but they’re gonna be in the minority.

[Roberta] Yeah. Very exciting. Very, very exciting. But the thing about it is, the most exciting thing about it is that there will be a flood of new, not just new ideas, new inventions, but new freedoms, new thoughts, new concepts, new possibilities. People will begin then to say, Oh, I see how it’s possible for us to live on after death. I see how it’s possible for there to be distance viewing. And it begins to make sense now that all of these things always were possible.

Because right now, I mean, if consciousness is produced by the brain, then consciousness is a local thing. Your consciousness is around you, mine is around me. Maybe we can share thoughts, but there’s a limit, then a distance limit. It’s all very shaky if consciousness is an individual thing, owned by you, you own yours, I own mine, and so on. It’s all very shaky and speculative. But if consciousness is fundamental, if it’s like a grid, a universal grid of some sort that we all just tap into, wow, that’s a whole new world.

[Craig] Yeah, and science is not willing to see that now.

Remote Viewing Proves the Mind Is Not in the Brain

[Craig] You mentioned remote viewing, and I think remote viewing is one of the really profound demonstrations of the fact that the mind is not in the brain.

[Roberta] Yes, talk about that, because you’re good at that.

[Craig] Yeah, I can do remote viewing. And what I can do is I can sit in my office, and I’ve done this in Illinois, and I can look at something that someone has put it on a table someplace. I had a man who was doing this with me in New Jersey. He wanted to see how this worked. And so he would put things on his table in his office in New Jersey for me to look at. So I would just sit quietly and close my eyes, and I would then imagine what was on the table in his office and I’d send sketches to him and when he saw the sketches, he said, well, one of these is the banker’s lamp that is on the table, but it wasn’t the target. And I said, well, okay, then I can’t imagine I’ve got these sketches that I sent to you so I don’t know why I wasn’t getting them. He went home that night afterwards and he looked around his house and he was surprised to see that what I was looking at were things on the table in his house and so I was seeing things I was sketching them and it wasn’t just one table I was going from table to table all the way through his house and I had every sketch was of something on a table in his house.

It would be impossible if my mind were encased in my skull if it were three to five pounds of tofu like matter that was in my skull, I couldn’t possibly be able to see those things that were out in New Jersey when I’m sitting in my office in Illinois. Of course. So we know that consciousness is not in the brain, and that means when the brain dies, the consciousness just continues. We just continue to live. And we then transition into the next life, and the next life is very much like this life. It has all of the characteristics of this life, except none of the negatives. Everything is of the positives.

[Roberta]That’s what’s glorious about it.

[Craig] We just transition, yeah, we just transition. It’s a change of form. It’s just a change into a new form. That’s all it is.

People in Near-Death Experiences Glimpse the Afterlife

[Roberta] People who have near-death experiences very often believe they’ve actually gone to where the dead are. But they technically do not go to the afterlife. life, there is a sort of foyer from which we go to Earth and after which we transition back. They don’t go there, to that foyer. And we know that’s true, in part because they’ve survived the experience. During an extensive near -death experience, people will go to, will approach that area and will be told, you have to turn back because if you don’t, your silver cord will sever, and you’ll be dead, and you won’t be able to go back. But it’s so different there. It’s so extraordinary and beautiful to the places people can visit in the near-death experience, that it feels like they must be where the dead are, and they will meet with their family sometimes so they’ll meet with beautiful beings. They’ll have wonderful experiences very often. Naturally, it feels like they’ve gone to the afterlife. They just haven’t gone technically to the afterlife because their silver cord near death, yeah. I mean, that’s the way it is.

But it’s a wonderful, wonderful, beautiful place that people travel to in a near death experience, nothing wrong with it. It’s gorgeous. It’s beautiful. And it’s good. We call it the astral plane. And it’s, it’s beautiful. It’s also huge. It’s gigantic. It’s not people think it must be crowded. There’s been so many people who have died and now we’re hanging around there. Oh, no, it’s very much bigger than here. We think just to give a size estimate to it, we think it may be as big as the universe, you know, only without space between. It’s just all beautiful and gigantic and wonderful, and there’s no negativity that we’re aware of. It’s just beautiful.

There Are Millions of Other Spheres or Worlds

[Craig] The way they describe it, they say to us that there are millions of other spheres or worlds, and what we are, we are in one of them. And they call the Earth the nursery because of the fact that this is where we gain our consciousness, this is where we can, we then develop what we will continue with when we go into the next realm. But there are millions of other spheres and planets and all of these things exist and we are akin to them. In other words, we are still one with them. So everything that is happening on those other planets then is affecting what we’re doing, it’s affecting who we are. We know the fact that the people who are coming to us that we call extraterrestrials, the individuals who are coming to us, the great majority of them have our best interests at heart and they are here to help us.

That’s one of the places that the UAPs or UFOs come from. It is people who are coming to help us, to work with us, and there are some that are malevolent, who are not so nice, but they’re kept in… Yeah, they’re being kept away from us. They’re being kept away from us, right. And so we know that that’s true. We know that there are other worlds, there are other lives, and we will be having correspondence with them. We will be communicating with them. So that is in our near future.

[Roberta] Just briefly, you may have heard a loud sound. One of my daughter’s cats is in my room here, loves to sort of hang around with me, and I don’t know what she did, but she made some sort of something fall over. Sorry about that.

The Discoveries by Science Are Going to Come

[Roberta] No, we are very precious to God. We are being protected. it. We are deeply loved, and why it is so important to the scientific community not to find God is a matter of amazement and wonder to me. I don’t know why that’s so important to them, but it is. And that’s the main obstacle now that science faces. They’re coming to a point where that discovery is going to be inevitable. They won’t be able to avoid it any longer, and I don’t know what the tip is gonna be, but there will be a point that they come to where it will be impossible for them to ignore what is being found by, as you point out, the next generation, the next younger generation. Somebody is gonna find it, and it will be unavoidable.

But we’re coming to the end of our time. What do you want people to take away from our conversation today? We’ve talked about quite a bit.

[Craig] Yeah, the most important thing is, at the basis of our reality is consciousness. In other words, it’s the mind of God. So we are part of that consciousness. And that means that when we leave the body, we are just going to be changing form. We continue to live. We will live on after the body dies. And in that realm that we are going to be entering, we’ll continue our growth. We’ll continue to learn. And we’ll be there with our loved ones, with all the pets that we loved and everyone that we loved. There will be a great reunion when we make the transition from this life to the next? And some people find that the people that they thought were their enemies, that people that didn’t, weren’t good to them and stuff, were dear eternal friends who took that role to help them to grow spiritually. There are some wonderful reunions we have. And in some cases, we just never expected that those people were actually wonderful friends.

[Roberta] So this life is far more wonderful and amazing, don’t you find, than we ever dreamed when we were younger. The longer I live, the more amazing and wonderful. The more exciting it is, the more exciting. It really is. Life turns out to be so wonderful. It’s a wonderful time to be alive. Yes, it truly is. And I think one of the best things that ever happened was when the Amazon mailed your book to me and I got to meet you. It certainly has enriched our lives, I think, so much that we’re such good friends. So, consider yourself hugged, my very dear, dear one. Thank you, and look forward to talking to you again. Yes, and stay there just a minute, I just have to say goodbye and tell everyone who’s going to be here next week, and I’ll be back in a moment. So everyone, hasn’t this been fun? But understand, everyone, really, that consciousness is, no matter what everyone else thinks, consciousness is our base creative force.

Everything that exists around you, everything that exists at all, is composed of consciousness. There really is nothing else. And that, I think, is the main thing I would like everybody to take away from today. Consciousness is really all there is. And this, once again, has been Secret Reality with Roberta Grimes. I’m so happy you were with us today. Please never forget that you are a powerful, eternal being. You never began, you never will end. and when you get that, it changes everything for the better.

Next week our guest will be Brenda Reitz, who will be with us for the sixth time. She’s our Seek Reality Guru of forgiveness and self -forgiveness, really, and she does a wonderful job of teaching us why forgiveness is so important and how forgiveness can be a progress for us that’s just natural. From the pure divine love that Jesus taught, we can move right into forgiveness without the kind of stress many people feel that it puts us through. Brenda had a difficult past and that made forgiveness really liberating for her. And I think it becomes liberating for us too when she talks about it the way she does. Jesus is right about the fact that forgiveness makes it possible for us to live our own best life. Please be sure to join us next week. I think you’ll enjoy this.

This week, of course, our wonderful, all time, secret reality favorite, Dr. R. Craig Hogan has been with us for the 47th time, almost 50 times, but that’s about right. He’s with us about once every three months and in our almost 10 and a half years of spending these precious hour, just an hour next week, an hour each week is all it really is, but I try to bring you people who can help you to grow spiritually a little bit more each week and sort of try to open your vista a little bit more. The truth about the afterlife, the truth about reality is so much more glorious than any church tells you or any friend, your parents, reality is so much more amazing. And the older you get, the more you free yourself from the constraints that sort of life puts on you.

The more you free yourself, as Craig and I say, the older we get, the more beautiful life really becomes. And the fact that you’re aware right now means that you’re always are going to be more and more and more aware. And really, when it comes time to die, you’re going to find that that’s just the beginning of a greater life. Craig and I founded SeekReality .com together, but he has taken it over and done more with it than I ever could have done. He has really made it into something amazing. So go to SeekReality online, secseekreality.com and learn from Craig what your next stage is. It just is glorious. And of course we also have teachingsbyjesus.com which is your best resource for the beautiful divine truths that are brought to us now in perfect love by the greatest teacher of them all, Master Jesus. Now it really is his turn because as the religion dies, which he didn’t have any part in creating. That was the Roman Emperor Constantine’s idea, and as it dies, Jesus is finally going to come into his own.

And I have some books too, but there’s no time to talk about them because we talked for so long, but that’s okay. You can find them on Amazon or, you know, just wherever books are sold. If you ever want to talk to me about anything, just go to the Green Contact Block on robertagrimes .com. I answer all my emails. And all of the more than 550 past episodes of Seek Reality are available wherever audio podcasts can be found. And the later ones are not just podcasts, not just not just audio, but they’re also video and you can find them just about wherever video episodes can be found. Meanwhile, this has been Seek Reality with Roberta Grimes. Please enjoy. Please make the most of this coming week in our One Reality, always knowing that you, most of all in this entire universe, you are infinitely, eternally and always perfectly loved.

You’ve been listening to Seek Reality with Roberta Grimes. Roberta blogs and answers questions at robertagrimes .com. Join us every week as we explore what the afterlife evidence Science and modern science combine to tell us is true about the one reality we all share, knowing the truth changes everything.